In this episode of Reasonable Measures, Tim and Chris explore how artificial intelligence (AI) is colliding with intellectual property (IP) law, particularly focusing on copyrights, patents, and trade secrets. They highlight legal challenges around whether AI can be considered an “inventor” or “author,” and revisit the well-known “monkey selfie” case as a precedent for non-human creations. As AI-generated outputs become more sophisticated, traditional IP frameworks are being tested. The conversation also touches on the value of trade secrets in protecting AI models, especially when patents are either too slow or publicly revealing.

Reasonable Measures Podcast
Not yet ranked as the #1 Trade Secrets-related podcast in the world, Timothy Londergan and Chris Buntel discuss the latest developments in trade secrets and litigation. New episodes every month.
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Episode 14: Monkey Selfies & AI Inventions Navigating Copyrights, Patents, and Trade Secrets
In this episode of Reasonable Measures, Tim and Chris explore how artificial intelligence (AI) is colliding with intellectual property (IP) law, particularly focusing on copyrights, patents, and trade secrets. They highlight legal challenges around whether AI can be considered an “inventor” or “author,” and revisit the well-known “monkey selfie” case as a precedent for non-human creations. As AI-generated outputs become more sophisticated, traditional IP frameworks are being tested. The conversation also touches on the value of trade secrets in protecting AI models, especially when patents are either too slow or publicly revealing.
Episode 13: $1.8 Billion and Counting, The Cost of Trade Secret Theft
In this episode of the Reasonable Measures podcast, Tim and Chris return after a busy start to the year to dive into a landmark trade secret case: Phillips 66 v. Propel Fuels. They unpack how Propel secured a $604.9 million judgment—later tripled to a staggering $1.8 billion—due to willful and malicious trade secret misappropriation. The discussion highlights key risk mitigation strategies for companies navigating M&A due diligence and the evolving perception of trade secrets as a core intellectual property strategy. Tim and Chris also share insights from recent conferences and industry conversations, emphasizing how more organizations are proactively managing trade secret protection and governance.
Episode 12: Trade Secret Litigation Lightning Round
In this episode of the Reasonable Measures podcast, Tim and Chris discuss three notable trade secret cases from Latvia, China, and the United States. They explore the implications of whistleblower retaliation, the intersection of trade secrets and criminal law, and the complexities of ongoing litigation between IQVIA and Viva Systems. The conversation highlights the evolving landscape of trade secret protection and the legal challenges faced by companies and individuals.
Episode 11: The trade secret most likely to be stolen
Discover why customer lists are the most litigated trade secrets in this episode of The Reasonable Measures Podcast. Hosts Tim and Chris explore key case studies, trade secret definitions, and practical tips for protecting valuable IP.
Episode 10: Trade Secret Damages are Calculated Globally
Explore the high-stakes Motorola vs. Hytera trade secret lawsuit involving global damages and cross-border IP theft. Learn how U.S. trade secret laws protect multinational companies, with insights into damages, injunctions, and global legal implications.
Episode 9: How to get busted stealing a business and lose $96M in court
Explore the high-stakes case of Prysmian vs. Sterlite, where trade secret theft led to a $96M judgment. Learn best practices for protecting sensitive business data, the evolving legal landscape, and the rising financial stakes of intellectual property litigation.
Episode 8: Appian’s $2b Trade Secret Win Goes “Poof”
Explore the reversal of Appian’s $2 billion trade secret damages award against Pegasystems. Discover key issues in the damages calculation, insurance complexities, and the potential for refiling under the Defend Trade Secrets Act (DTSA).
Episode 7: Record Breaking Judgement in Trade Secret Case
Explore the landmark Chengdu v. Wei case on The Reasonable Measures Podcast. Discover how China’s record-breaking $88M trade secret judgment signals a shift in IP enforcement, driven by domestic pressures for stronger protections and fair competition.
Episode 6: The Professor Owes His Students $26.6M
Discover the dramatic Sigma Pharma trade secret lawsuit in The Reasonable Measures Podcast. Learn how extreme employment terms led to a $26.6M judgment and key takeaways for employees and startups navigating equity agreements and legal disputes.
Episode 5: A Trade Secret Love Triangle – Boeing owes Zunum $72M
Discover key lessons from the Zunum Aero vs. Boeing lawsuit, where trade secret misuse led to $72M in damages. Learn how startups and corporations can safeguard IP during partnerships and manage risks in high-stakes collaborations.
Episode 4: Samsung BOE trade secret case at the ITC
Explore the Samsung-BOE trade secret case and the ITC’s pivotal role in resolving IP disputes. Discover how the ITC’s swift investigations, import bans, and global jurisdiction make it a powerful tool for protecting trade secrets in high-stakes cases.
Episode 3: The Battle Over the FTC Ban on Non-Compete Agreements
Explore the legal challenges to the FTC’s non-compete ban and its implications for trade secret protection. Learn how companies like Jane Street safeguard sensitive information without non-competes and discover the growing role of the ITC in trade secret disputes.
Episode 2: Trade secret misappropriation by an FDA official?
Explore the FTC’s non-compete ban and its impact on trade secrets, plus Vanda Pharmaceuticals’ case against the FDA over alleged trade secret disclosures. Learn how these developments shape IP law and government accountability on The Reasonable Measures Podcast.
Episode 1: All Roads Lead To India
Join Tim Londergan and Chris on The Reasonable Measures Podcast as they delve into trade secrets, IP law, and global case studies. From India’s push for a trade secret statute to a case law review in the U.S., discover how laws are evolving to meet local business needs.